These are my favorite types of posts... The posts in which my readers get to comment and add all their input to drive the subject. So please, comment your little hearts out!
We are starting a very large project at my firm and, of course, using Revit. All disciplines are in house (MEP and Structural). As I am on the Architecture side of things I am modeling the existing building as I type this post. In a meeting last week the topic was introduced about do we or do we not model the Existing MEP...
The project will have many construction phases with the existing MEP systems being used during the first one or two major phases. Then, depending on what the engineers decide, the existing MEP will be demolished completely or bits and pieces demolished.
I would like to ask you, my readers, who may be experienced with Revit MEP and renovations/additions... Do you model the existing MEP components? Or maybe just the HVAC portion?
Any and all feedback is welcome... I think this will help my readers as much as it will help me.
Logging you in...
Jeremy Stroebel · 713 weeks ago
jschaef · 713 weeks ago
Of course, there are other ways to do this that save time. Linework, although it's arguable that you'd end up spending just as much time drafting in lines as you would modeling the thing; using existing documents (in CAD, presumably), as a foundation to issue those few demo sheets, which is not a BIM solution; or possibly a combination of CAD and BIM to create another 2d solution.
At my firm, we generally pick the solution based on time and allotted fee, as well as potential need for information in the future.
Now, if you're only demolishing part of the MEP, the other part would HAVE to be visible, so you'd pretty much end up modeling it, regardless. At this point, I'm substantially faster in putting it in Revit than I am going back to drafting lines in CAD, so I'd lobby for the 3d, personally.
TheRevitKid 72p · 713 weeks ago
So rather than argue if it is CURRENTLY in the fee on a specific project I wonder if the argument should be is is WORTH IT to add this to future fees. Should it even be taken into consideration for the sake of BIM and coordination? Or is a simple CAD line drawing on top of the existing MEP drawings good enough?
Gabe · 713 weeks ago
I was currently researching a simliar question and maybe someone can provide me input as well. Since it has to do with RMEP as well. In a campus type project with two seperate building models linked into each other. How do you combine your panel loads if they are being feed by a central plant? Currently my suggestion is to create fake panels and create each model individually. Apply the calculated loads for each model in the panel schedules so they reflect correctly.
Ian · 713 weeks ago
Clyne Curtis · 713 weeks ago
Ian · 713 weeks ago
great question, long time listener, first time caller.
On the projects that I have worked on, I have tried all sorts of methods to save time when it comes to the existing conditions. I have used the hybrid CAD/BIM, works ok but of course there is a lot to be desired. I attempted to use design options, to not only show existing, demo, but also 2 other options, epic fail. I have used point clouds, though only after exhaustive cleanup and conversion (i think there may have been a problem with the original point cloud though). And of course i have modeled using phases, which i think is the best option and provides the most value at this point. Especially if the project is going to be taken to FM, it might be good to spend the time initially. But as jschaef points out above it really comes down to the fee and time allotted.
My 2cents. Cheers.
alonso · 713 weeks ago
for us MEP engineers, is imperative to have a model upon which to base our models, even if is not in phasing, therefore someone has to model something, existing or new, in order for us to be able to place our designed stuff.
TheRevitKid 72p · 713 weeks ago
Peter in MD · 712 weeks ago
Jim Foster · 712 weeks ago
The question is why? I am assuming by MEP, you mean not only the objects but the runs as well? And how was it captured/documented in the first place? Is someone going to fabricate based on it? All we do is document existing conditions, and now more likely than not, we deliver our results in Revit. We start as a baseline as delivering an LOD 200 structural model, that is generic components, because most of the time the any detail, or detailed wall components, etc would be a wasted exercise for its intended use.
We will capture RCP and Fire Protection and MEP objects as they occur so it can give a starting point for other professionals who fill in/detail as they need.
jim
oldtexas · 712 weeks ago
old texas
MistressOfDorkness · 712 weeks ago
Rare? Sure. But, we exist. It's just important to know your client's end-users, obviously.
Like Clyne, I work for a large facility (about 6mil sq ft), so BIM adoption is a slow process. He started sooner than I did because our concerns are primarily with MEP and that's taken awhile to mature and see wide enough adoption by contractors. We're taking it in on a project by project basis. Primarily on new buildings, but, have had half a dozen renovations with Revit MEP so far (fitting out existing shell spaces).
It's going to be a learning process for everyone involved.
Luiz Carlos Cardoso · 712 weeks ago
My idea is this., In this case we must first analyze all the architectural projects and the building structure and then do an analysis of thermal calculations of the building to be implemented and plan for implementation of the new HVAC system and other Mep. We can also think of a retoifit equipment and other components of the existing facility will be remodeled.
lcchvac
Luiz Carlos Cardoso · 712 weeks ago
My idea is this., In this case we must first analyze all the architectural projects and the building structure and then do an analysis of thermal calculations of the building to be implemented and plan for implementation of the new HVAC system and other Mep. We can also think of a retrofit equipment and other components of the existing facility will be remodeled.
lcchvac